Pastortimteague's Blog

I can’t stand it.  Losing a group of young adults in the kingdom is driving me nuts.  For years I have wrestled with this issue as a pastor but lately I have been burdened beyond the norm.  Tough one for me as a shepherd.  I see too many young adults who have been raised in church, home-schooled, attended private Christian schools and our public schools – walk away from the “faith” and pursue every facet of life they can be entertained with.  I will never understand it or come to grips with it. 

I am at a loss here.  I beg responses.  I am confident there is no “one” reason.  There is an endless list of excuses and seemingly good rational reasonings.  Help me out here.  Talk to me.  Write back.  Scream at me.  Cuss at me.  Pass the buck. But please do something to help me.  I am at a loss.    Hundreds of young people every day turn from the “institutional’ church venue and step away from practicing their faith as they have been taught.  Why?  What draws them away?  Where have we gone wrong?  Have we gone wrong?  Where did we miss it?

I was moaning and whining about this to my lovely wife who’s wisdom exceeds mine by the train loads.  She simply said this in response to my ashes and sackcloth attitude.  “It seems to me that every generation has their Cain and Abel issues to deal with!”   This response is deeper than your surface thinking mind can assimilate.   Let me try to jump on board her wisdom train.

Cain and Abel.  You remember them don’t you?  The very first siblings of the very first parents.  Wow!  They were really messed up!  No one to blame for “generational curses”.   Mom and dad had no one to compare to and God didn’t offer any parenting classes at the church they attended.  Wham!  All of a sudden they realize they have raised a murderer!  Get out of town!  Come on God!  Sucker punched these two parents right from the get go.   Sibling rivalry.  Sin in the “camp”.   The world was just getting started and wham bam slam! 

This Cain and Abel thing may be something to chase.  Really.  Inbreded in each one of us is the capability to sin.  We are born sinners.  When we raise our children in a faith environment we tend to “obligate” them to our faith practices and our faith standards.  We indoctrinate them…which is what we are supposed to do.  We model Christ to the best of our ability.  We prove failue is not fatal.  We demonstrate forgiveness.   We bless our enemies.  We do all the right things to put our kids on the rock of faith we have created for them.  Then they turn 17 or 18 and we wonder what in God’s name happened to them?  Where did all the teaching go?  What about this thing of bringing up kids in faith so when they “get older they will never depart from it?”  Yeah right!   Prove it!

Well I think there are some dyanmics here we can relate to as Christian parents.  There is the issue of obligation.  Until a young person gets to a certain age (subjective to maturity and personalities of the kids) he or she is obligated to serve the Lord.   We passively intend to take our kids to church.  Bless God they’re going and that’s all there is to it!   We do this for the sake of exposing the kids to faith principles.   There is nothing wrong with this obligation avenue.   I don’t think so anyway.

There is the issue that we get lost in somewhere between the child’s age of “accountability” and us.  Yeah, you heard right….us as parents.  We grow very concerned that their behavior, language, academic and athletic successes portray us as “good Christian parents.”  It’s in this season of Christian parenting that we can get lost in.   Our obligation to expose them to teachings and faith principles that will lead them to salvation gets mixed in with our desire to have the image of good parents.  After all what would others think about US if our kids go bad?  This image issue is huge!  But it also can create another problem for us with this group of kids.

Can our image of what we want our kids to be, act like, worship like, etc. be an albatross?  In some cases, yes!  By now I have parents really upset with me.  But give me a chance here.   I think sometimes our kids have to find their own relationship with Jesus.  They know the obligatorial relationship.  They know all about the rules and faith regulations.  They know the difference in right and wrong.  They really do.  This is what we take pleasure in as good parents.  We really did do “our” part.   The difficult part is letting them do “their” part.  They have to have their own “born again” relationship with Jesus.  We have given them a foundation to build on.   Problem is that most of us want their faith house to look like ours.  I have discovered something.  Foundations are important to any structure but the foundation is not visible in most cases.  It’s hidden and surrounded by dirt.  We give our kids a foundation through their early adult years in life.  We have to somehow let go and let them build on the foundation we have provided.  Their “faith house” may not be exactly like ours, have the same doors, colors, windows, etc.  It may not be furnished like ours.  But we have to let them build their faith house.  It has to mirror who they are not who we are.  If we can accept the foundation part and know that the world may never see or commend our kids for the foundation of their faith house….we will be better served in the arena of parent sanity.

One more thing on this rambling blog today.   I have preached for a long time the difference in belief and conviction.   A belief system will change by environment and even opposing influences in our life.  A conviction is something we will die for.  I really think we have to teach young people to mature with convictions.  The obligation is the belief system.  We do that well.  But teaching our kids to have convictions is an whole new ball game.  It reaches beyond the foundation.  The conviction is what causes our children to defend the home they have built and structured on the foundation provided.   They will give their life for “their” home.  Getting to this stage is not easy.   You can’t obligate someone to a conviction.  A conviction is established in the heart of a person.  A belief system is established in their head.  

I don’t have all the answers and I don’t think anyone does.  Cursed be the person who thinks they have mastered parenting to the degree they have perfected it.  Anethema to them!   Get real!   We are going to wrestle with this issue.  I am just looking for ways to keep our kids when they “spread their wings.”  Yeah, I know!  Some of them will come back and some won’t.  Doesn’t make the heart ache any easier on my side. 

Paul told Timothy not to let anyone despise or make little of his youth in 1 Timothy 4.12.  He then gives some insight as to how to do this: speech, conduct, love, faith and purity.  Could it be that there is something to these five points?  Maybe this is the context for my next blog!  What do you think?  Are we chasing choices or is choices chasing us?  Raising kids and keeping them in the kingdom is about choices.  Both theirs and ours.  Interesting don’t you think?

In a recent  interview with Ann Curry the Iranian leader Ahmadinejad recognizes that the Christian God really does answer prayer.  MSNBC posts the entire speech transcript on their website.  I pulled my copy from Joel Rosenbergs blog site. 

Here is the portion of the speech he gave that I want to focus on.

Curry: In your speeches, you pray for God to hasten the arrival of the hidden Imam, the Muslim messiah. Would you tell us, as I know you will speak about this at the general assembly, as well.  What is your relationship with the hidden Imam, and how soon do you think before the second coming?

Ahmadinejad: Yes, that’s true.  I prayed for the arrival of the 12th Imam. The owner of the age, as we call him.  Because the owner of the age is the symbol of the – justice and brotherly love prevailing around the world.  When the Imam arrives, all of these problems will be resolved.  And a prayer for the owner of the age is nothing but a wish for justice and brotherly love to prevail around the world. And it’s an obligation a person takes upon himself to always think about brotherly love. And also to treating others as equals.

All people can establish such a connection with the Imam of the age. It’s roughly the same as the relationship which exists between Christians and the Christ.  They speak with Jesus Christ and they are sure that Christ hears them.  And responds.  Therefore, this is not limited to us only.  Any person can talk with the Imam.  

Curry: You’ve said that you believe that his arrival, the apocalypse, would happen in your own lifetime. What do you believe that you should do to hasten his arrival?

Ahmadinejad: I have never said such a thing.

Curry: Ah, forgive me.

Ahmadinejad: I – I – I was talking about peace.

Curry: Forgive me.

Ahmadinejad: What is being said about an apocalyptic war and – global war, things of that nature.  This is what the Zionists are claiming.  Imam…will come with logic, with culture, with science.  He will come so that there is no more war. No more enmity, hatred.  No more conflict.  He will call on everyone to enter a brotherly love. Of course, he will return with Jesus Christ.  The two will come back together.  And working together, they would fill this world with love.  The stories that have been disseminated around the world about extensive war, apocalyptic wars, so on and so forth, these are false.

 The inference in the very first question Curry asks him is found in the second paragraph of his first answer.  He compares the 12 Imam to Jesus Christ and the Christian faith.   In reference to the issue on prayer Ahmadinejad says Christians believe the Jesus Christ and hears them and responds.  Then he says that any person can talk to the Imam.  I think the inference is clear. 

While Islamic believers claim a knowledge of Jesus Christ they do not believe in the deity of Christ.  This reference is clear in that Ahmadinejad knows the power of the Christian faith.  If “Christ” hears and responds in similar fashion as does the “12th Imam” then two things are clear. 

First, our God answers prayer.  He hears us and he responds.  We don’t necessarily need Ahmadinejad preaching our gospel but its nice to know he can.  Second, there is a spiritual force surrounding the belief of the 12th Imam.  Is the 12th Imam the antichrist as some are claiming today?  Don’t really know – but its possible.   Are we engaged in spiritual warfare for the souls of men and women?  Absolutely and Ephesians six couldn’t be more approbriate here for discussion.

Ephesians six is often used for teaching the armament of the soldier or the weaponry of the soldier.  Fact is clear…we are engaged in warfare.  Fact is clear…we need to put on the full armor of God.  But Paul goes on to identify warfare as not just engaging in what I term “play ground scuffs”.   The real battle is for the ability for the church speak and proclaim boldly the word of the Lord. 

Never before have we stood at a crossroad where prayer is so vitally important.  Never before have we been faced with the opportunity to unite our voices in calling on God to give us boldness to speak the gospel.  It’s not about dodging fiery darts to and hearing demonically empowered spears passing by our heads.  It’s about the church praying for boldness to speak the word of God. While Paul speaks of himself in prison and makes his instruction subjective to his occasion and environment – he also notes he is an ambassador.   The position of an ambassador is not subjective to the prison.  

We have instructions to go and engage in warfare.  Spiritual warfare.  Not the super hype that is applauded in too many congregations today.   Unless we are praying for boldness in the fight for souls I am confident we are no where near spritual warfare that Paul the apostle intimated in Ephesians six.

What are your thoughts?

Once again I find myself torn between anger and humiliation for the church.  This past week we saw another believer fall to the sin of sexual immorality.  Not that we have to define moral failure by titles (sexual) but for the sake of those we address.  South Carolina Governor Mark Sanford admitted to having an affair.   I watched with held emotions as he testified of his failure for the world to hear.  My heart went out to his wife and family.  As a pastor / spiritual leader, I have been far too many times left holding the tragic remains of sexual moral failures.  It’s not a pretty sight.  Like a Volkswagon being hit by a frieght train at full speed – you find yourself picking up the pieces for quite some time while simultaneously attempting to find out what happened in the first place.

As I listened to Mark openly admit having an affair – he danced with the idea of being a believer, being part of a fellowship of believers and working with Christian counselors and influencers.  It’s as though this admission to being a Christian was giong to make forgiveness a much easier task.  Sin and grace have come too close to being “kissing cousins” (pardon the illustration) in the church.  My question is this: Has the church come to a place where we are portrayed as favoring sin?  My first answer would be that of Paul the apostles when defining the role of grace in the church.  “God forbid!”

But there seems to be this underlying approach to moral failure of the soft landing of grace.  A grace that lends itself to not admitting the sin of the failure, being accountable for restoration and even knowing grace awaits me if I fall – regardless of the type of fall. 

Romans 6,7, and 8 deal with this very issue.  I have been a proponent of grace in the face of tragic failure for many years.  What I am not a proponent of is the spiritual rationalization of the results of unrestrained sin.  I wondered how the unbeliever heard what Sanford said.  I wonder how the weak believer sitting in our churches heard what Sanford and a host of others have said in their admission of moral failure.  Has sin become a cultural issue for the church?  Have we allowed sin to become so easily fallen to that we just openly commit sin to act on available grace?

Don’t misunderstand me.  I believe in restoration ministry. I have led men and women through the process for years.  My problem is the “restoration” cultural we have created that takes a person beyond the discipline of the flesh.   Have we sold the convenience of grace at a lesser price than pure old fashioned sanctification?  Have cheapened grace by not demanding a discipline of the flesh?  Have we traded offending the presence of the Holy Spirit in the believer for the momentary pleasures of the flesh? 

With so many high profile ministers and politicians playing the Christian and restoration card – are we sending the wrong signal to the unbeliever?  Are we saying to those who commit sin in the church there is no consequence for your sin?  Repentance is something we do.  Forgiveness is something someone else does on our behalf.  We confess God and the church forgives.   Without confession there is no real admission to sin.  Have we favored sin by not requiring a confession?  When confessions are made are they made only because the one who committed sin was caught?  Would there be a confession any other way?  I hope we understand that not all confessions are acts of repentance.   Repentance is a complete turn around.  It is the abandonment of sin.  I have at times heard confessions of sorrow without hearing words of repentance.  Forgiveness is a divine act in response to repentance – not necessarily mere confession of sorrow.

I trust the church has not created an atmosphere that favors sin.  While we can favor forgiveness and restoration of sin – we do so at the expense and tragedy of saying to those who are undisciplined – sin with no regard to your personal responsibility to sin.   If we have said this then we too must confess our sin.  Does this vicious cycle ever find a resting place?

I recently spoke on Exodus 1 and used the midwives as a an example of prophetic influence for the church today. I believe that the midwives were used by God to stop an all out assualt on the birthing channel for the promised Deliverer – who in this case would be Moses who would appear in chapter two. The idea I presented was that there is a powerful assualt on the spiritual birthing process today. Satan is attempting to stop what God wants birthed in the earth.
Everything that happens in the kingdom happens through a birthing process. Jesus was born by appointment.   The Holy Spirit had a place in history in being “birthed” into the churches arena of reception, power and process for the church.

We are discovering that there are spiritual “bastards” in the kingdom.  These are the illigitimate births that have effected the church in the long run.  Let me define my term “spiritual bastards”.   Scripture declares that those who deny or refuse discipline are “bastards.”  Not my term but His. 

Hebrews 12:6-9 (KJV) For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth. (7) If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not? (8) But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons. (9) Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?

Hebrews 12:5-11 and you have forgotten the exhortation which is addressed to you as sons, “MY SON, DO NOT REGARD LIGHTLY THE DISCIPLINE OF THE LORD, NOR FAINT WHEN YOU ARE REPROVED BY HIM; (6) FOR THOSE WHOM THE LORD LOVES HE DISCIPLINES, AND HE SCOURGES EVERY SON WHOM HE RECEIVES.” (7) It is for discipline that you endure; God deals with you as with sons; for what son is there whom his father does not discipline? (8) But if you are without discipline, of which all have become partakers, then you are illegitimate children and not sons. (9) Furthermore, we had earthly fathers to discipline us, and we respected them; shall we not much rather be subject to the Father of spirits, and live? (10) For they disciplined us for a short time as seemed best to them, but He disciplines us for our good, so that we may share His holiness. (11) All discipline for the moment seems not to be joyful, but sorrowful; yet to those who have been trained by it, afterwards it yields the peaceful fruit of righteousness.

What I am seeing more and more in the church is a denial of discipline.  We have raised up a generation of believers who want independence.  No discipline.  All right and wrong is subjective to carnal appetites.  No pastoral or even doctrinal foundation.  No spiritual guidance or direction.  We are simply seeing believers move towards what satisfies the flesh.  If it makes me feel good, if it makes me comfortable, it must be alright.  When Father God brings discipline into our lives we ignore it, blame our “hardness” on the devil, our family, our co-workers, etc.  We simply don’t have the insight to know this can be from God.

We are dealing with this in great numbers.   I am seeing a lot of young people move towards the flesh and resist sound doctrine.  They are entertaining doctrines that are not scripturally sound.  They may bring a sense of pleasure to the flesh and to our carnal appetites and thinking but they are not sound doctrinal beliefs.  I am concerned about this.  I am burdened that this generation is in some ways modeling their behavior after a previous generation of independent thinkers.  The problem with following after a previous model is usually the succeeding generations are worse in their behavior of subjective doctinal interpretation.

This is an article I recently came across. What do you think?

The coming evangelical collapse!
An anti-Christian chapter in Western history is about to begin. But out of the ruins, a new vitality and integrity will rise.
By Michael Spencer
March 10, 2009
ONEIDA, KY. – We are on the verge – within 10 years – of a major collapse of evangelical Christianity. This breakdown will follow the deterioration of the mainline Protestant world and it will fundamentally alter the religious and cultural environment in the West.
Within two generations, evangelicalism will be a house deserted of half its occupants. (Between 25 and 35 percent of Americans today are Evangelicals.) In the “Protestant” 20th century, Evangelicals flourished. But they will soon be living in a very secular and religiously antagonistic 21st century.
This collapse will herald the arrival of an anti-Christian chapter of the post-Christian West. Intolerance of Christianity will rise to levels many of us have not believed possible in our lifetimes, and public policy will become hostile toward evangelical Christianity, seeing it as the opponent of the common good.
Millions of Evangelicals will quit. Thousands of ministries will end. Christian media will be reduced, if not eliminated. Many Christian schools will go into rapid decline. I’m convinced the grace and mission of God will reach to the ends of the earth. But the end of evangelicalism as we know it is close.
WHY IS THIS GOING TO HAPPEN?
1. Evangelicals have identified their movement with the culture war and with political conservatism. This will prove to be a very costly mistake. Evangelicals will increasingly be seen as a threat to cultural progress. Public leaders will consider us bad for America, bad for education, bad for children, and bad for society.
The evangelical investment in moral, social, and political issues has depleted our resources and exposed our weaknesses. Being against gay marriage and being rhetorically pro-life will not make up for the fact that massive majorities of Evangelicals can’t articulate the Gospel with any coherence. We fell for the trap of believing in a cause more than a faith.
2. We Evangelicals have failed to pass on to our young people an orthodox form of faith that can take root and survive the secular onslaught. Ironically, the billions of dollars we’ve spent on youth ministers, Christian music, publishing, and media has produced a culture of young Christians who know next to nothing about their own faith except how they feel about it. Our young people have deep beliefs about the culture war, but do not know why they should obey scripture, the essentials of theology, or the experience of spiritual discipline and community. Coming generations of Christians are going to be monumentally ignorant and unprepared for culture-wide pressures.
3. There are three kinds of evangelical churches today: consumer-driven megachurches, dying churches, and new churches whose future is fragile. Denominations will shrink, even vanish, while fewer and fewer evangelical churches will survive and thrive.
4. Despite some very successful developments in the past 25 years, Christian education has not produced a product that can withstand the rising tide of secularism. Evangelicalism has used its educational system primarily to staff its own needs and talk to itself.
5. The confrontation between cultural secularism and the faith at the core of evangelical efforts to “do good” is rapidly approaching. We will soon see that the good Evangelicals want to do will be viewed as bad by so many, and much of that work will not be done. Look for ministries to take on a less and less distinctively Christian face in order to survive.
6. Even in areas where Evangelicals imagine themselves strong (like the Bible Belt), we will find a great inability to pass on to our children a vital evangelical confidence in the Bible and the importance of the faith.
7. The money will dry up.
WHAT WILL BE LEFT?
•Expect evangelicalism to look more like the pragmatic, therapeutic, church-growth oriented megachurches that have defined success. Emphasis will shift from doctrine to relevance, motivation, and personal success – resulting in churches further compromised and weakened in their ability to pass on the faith.
•Two of the beneficiaries will be the Roman Catholic and Orthodox communions. Evangelicals have been entering these churches in recent decades and that trend will continue, with more efforts aimed at the “conversion” of Evangelicals to the Catholic and Orthodox traditions.
•A small band will work hard to rescue the movement from its demise through theological renewal. This is an attractive, innovative, and tireless community with outstanding media, publishing, and leadership development. Nonetheless, I believe the coming evangelical collapse will not result in a second reformation, though it may result in benefits for many churches and the beginnings of new churches.
•The emerging church will largely vanish from the evangelical landscape, becoming part of the small segment of progressive mainline Protestants that remain true to the liberal vision.
•Aggressively evangelistic fundamentalist churches will begin to disappear.
•Charismatic-Pentecostal Christianity will become the majority report in evangelicalism. Can this community withstand heresy, relativism, and confusion? To do so, it must make a priority of biblical authority, responsible leadership, and a reemergence of orthodoxy.
•Evangelicalism needs a “rescue mission” from the world Christian community. It is time for missionaries to come to America from Asia and Africa. Will they come? Will they be able to bring to our culture a more vital form of Christianity?
•Expect a fragmented response to the culture war. Some Evangelicals will work to create their own countercultures, rather than try to change the culture at large. Some will continue to see conservatism and Christianity through one lens and will engage the culture war much as before – a status quo the media will be all too happy to perpetuate. A significant number, however, may give up political engagement for a discipleship of deeper impact.
IS ALL OF THIS A BAD THING?
Evangelicalism doesn’t need a bailout. Much of it needs a funeral. But what about what remains?
Is it a good thing that denominations are going to become largely irrelevant? Only if the networks that replace them are able to marshal resources, training, and vision to the mission field and into the planting and equipping of churches.
Is it a good thing that many marginal believers will depart? Possibly, if churches begin and continue the work of renewing serious church membership. We must change the conversation from the maintenance of traditional churches to developing new and culturally appropriate ones.
The ascendency of Charismatic-Pentecostal-influenced worship around the world can be a major positive for the evangelical movement if reformation can reach those churches and if it is joined with the calling, training, and mentoring of leaders. If American churches come under more of the influence of the movement of the Holy Spirit in Africa and Asia, this will be a good thing.
Will the evangelicalizing of Catholic and Orthodox communions be a good development? One can hope for greater unity and appreciation, but the history of these developments seems to be much more about a renewed vigor to “evangelize” Protestantism in the name of unity.
Will the coming collapse get Evangelicals past the pragmatism and shallowness that has brought about the loss of substance and power? Probably not. The purveyors of the evangelical circus will be in fine form, selling their wares as the promised solution to every church’s problems. I expect the landscape of megachurch vacuity to be around for a very long time.
Will it shake lose the prosperity Gospel from its parasitical place on the evangelical body of Christ? Evidence from similar periods is not encouraging. American Christians seldom seem to be able to separate their theology from an overall idea of personal affluence and success.
The loss of their political clout may impel many Evangelicals to reconsider the wisdom of trying to create a “godly society.” That doesn’t mean they’ll focus solely on saving souls, but the increasing concern will be how to keep secularism out of church, not stop it altogether. The integrity of the church as a countercultural movement with a message of “empire subversion” will increasingly replace a message of cultural and political entitlement.
Despite all of these challenges, it is impossible not to be hopeful. As one commenter has already said, “Christianity loves a crumbling empire.”
We can rejoice that in the ruins, new forms of Christian vitality and ministry will be born. I expect to see a vital and growing house church movement. This cannot help but be good for an evangelicalism that has made buildings, numbers, and paid staff its drugs for half a century.
We need new evangelicalism that learns from the past and listens more carefully to what God says about being His people in the midst of a powerful, idolatrous culture.
I’m not a prophet. My view of evangelicalism is not authoritative or infallible. I am certainly wrong in some of these predictions. But is there anyone who is observing evangelicalism in these times who does not sense that the future of our movement holds many dangers and much potential?
• Michael Spencer is a writer and communicator living and working in a Christian community in Kentucky. He describes himself as “a postevangelical reformation Christian in search of a Jesus-shaped spirituality.” This essay is adapted from a series on his blog, InternetMonk.com .

Welcome to my blog!  This is a place where I will introduce information about church life, church growth, the emerging church, the post modernism, doctrine, youth movements, church finance and just about anything I think will challenge our thinking.   I look forward to “hearing” from you.